Materiality from beyond the grave: the Zuavo of Magenta

We presented in the last LIVE one of the Conversations Beyond the Grave from the Spiritist Magazine of 1859, dealing with the theme of Materiality beyond the grave.

This time they talk to a soldier killed in battle.

The government allowed non-political newspapers to report on the war*. As, however, reports are abundant in all forms, it would be useless to repeat them here. The biggest news for our readers is a story from another world.

Although it is not taken from the Moniteur's official source, it is nonetheless of interest from the point of view of our studies. So we thought to interrogate some of the glorious victims of victory, presuming that we could extract some useful instruction from them. Similar subjects of study, and mainly of current affairs, do not appear at every step. Not personally knowing any of the participants in the last battle, we prayed to the spirits who assist us to send us someone. We came to think that the presence of a stranger would be preferable to that of friends or relatives overcome by emotion. Given an affirmative answer, we obtained the following communications.

RE 1859 The Zuavo of Magenta

This took place in the Second Italian War of Independence. The war took place in 1859, and was fought between the Kingdom of Sardinia, led by Camillo di Cavour, and France, led by Emperor Napoleon III, against the Austrian Empire. We will expose some excerpts from this long conversation beyond the grave.

1. ─ We pray to Almighty God to allow the spirit of a soldier killed in the battle of Magenta to come and communicate with us.

─ What do you want to know?

2. ─ Where were you when we called you?

─ I wouldn't know.

3. ─ Who told you that we wanted to talk to you?

─ Someone smarter than me.

4. ─ When in life was it doubtful that the dead could come and converse with the living?

─ Oh! Not that.

5. ─ What sensation do you experience by being here?

─ This gives me pleasure. I am told that you have great things to do.

6. ─ To which army corps did you belong? (Someone says in a low voice: From the language it looks like a “zuzu”)

─ Ah! Well you say!

7. ─ What was your position?

─ Everyone's.

8. ─ What was your name?

—Joseph Midard.

9. ─ How did you die?

─ Do you want to know everything without paying anything?

10. ─ I'm glad you haven't lost your joviality. Say, say; we will pay later. How did you die?

─ From a plum [projectile] I received.

11. ─ Were you upset by death?

─ No! I'm right here.

12. ─ At the moment of death, did you realize what happened?

─ No. I was so stunned I couldn't believe it.[note below]

NOTE from AK: This is in line with what we have observed in cases of violent death. Not realizing its situation immediately, the spirit does not think it is dead. This phenomenon is explained very easily. It is analogous to that of somnambulists, who do not believe they are sleeping. Indeed, for the somnambulist, the idea of sleep is synonymous with the suspension of intellectual faculties. Now, as he thinks, he does not believe that he sleeps. Only later is he convinced, when he becomes familiar with the meaning attached to this word. The same happens with a spirit surprised by a sudden death, when nothing is prepared for separation from the body. For him, death is synonymous with destruction, with annihilation. Well, since he lives, feels and thinks, he understands that he is not dead. It takes some time to recognize yourself.

13. ─ At the time of your death, the battle was not over. Did you follow their adventures?

─ Yes, because as I told you, I didn't think I was dead. I wanted to keep hitting the other dogs.

14. ─ What sensation did you experience then?

─ I was delighted, as I felt very light.

15. ─ Did you see the spirits of your comrades leaving their bodies?

─ I didn't even think about it, because I didn't believe I was dead.

16. ─ What was the multitude of Spirits who lost their lives in the tumult of battle transforming into at that moment? ─ I believe they were doing the same as me

17. ─ Finding themselves reunited in this world of the Spirits, what did those who fought the hardest think? Did they still throw themselves at each other?

─ Yes. For a while, and according to his character.

18. ─ Do you recognize yourself better now?

─ Without this, they wouldn't have sent me here.

19. ─ Could you tell us if among the spirits of soldiers who died a long time ago, there were still some interested in the outcome of the battle? (We beg Saint Louis to help him with the answers, so that, for our instruction, they are as explicit as possible).─ In large numbers. It is good for you to know that these combats and their consequences are prepared well in advance and that our opponents would not have become involved in crimes, as they did, if they had not been compelled to do so by reason of the future consequences, which you will soon learn about.

20. ─ There must have been spirits there who were interested in the success of the Austrians. Would there then be two battlegrounds between them?

─ Evidently.

OBSERVATION: Doesn't it seem that we are seeing Homer's gods taking sides here, some for the Greeks, others for the Trojans? Indeed, who were these gods of paganism, if not the Spirits that the Ancients had transformed into divinities? Are we not right when we say that Spiritism is a light that will clarify various mysteries, the key to numerous problems?

21. ─ Did they have any influence on the combatants?

─ Very considerable.

22. ─ Can you describe to us how they exerted such influence?

─ In the same way that all the influences of the Spirits are exerted on men. [by thought]

NOTE: It is a fact, as it becomes more and more evident, that the mentality of the Spirit creates scenarios of fluidic matter around it. Another thing could also be possible: they continue on the earthly battlefield, probably with some “fluidic additions”. All these must be indistinguishable at first when in the state of disturbance. However, it is not a rule, that is, it does not constitute a general truth for every soldier killed in war (see O Tambor de Beresina, RE, July 1858). The mistake is always to take the words of any spirits without analyzing their background, especially when the spirit is in post-death disturbance or is little enlightened, which is denoted by their own ideas. Here is Kardec's long work of Experimental Psychology!

23. ─ What do you hope to do now?

─ Study more than I did in my last stage.

24. ─ Are you going to return as a spectator to the battles yet to be fought?

─ I still don't know. I have affections that hold me for the moment. However, I hope from time to time to make a break for it, to amuse myself with the subsequent beatings.

25. ─ What kind of affection still holds you back?

─ A sick and suffering old mother, who cries for me.

26. ─ I ask you to forgive me for the bad thought that crossed my mind, regarding the affection that holds it.

─ It doesn't matter. I say silly things to make you laugh a little. It's natural that you don't take me for a big deal, considering the mediocre regiment to which I belonged. Don't worry, I only got involved because of that poor mother. I deserve a little that they sent me to you.

27. ─ When you were among the spirits, did you hear the rumor of battle? Did you see things as clearly as in life?

─ At first I lost sight of her, but after a while I saw much better, because I understood all the tricks. [is speaking in the sense of thoughts]

28. ─ I ask if you can hear the roar of the cannon.

─ Yes.

29. ─ At the moment of the action, did you think about death and what you would become if you were killed?

─ I thought about what would become of my mother.

30. ─ Was it the first time you were set on fire?

─ No, no. And Africa?

31. ─ Did you see the entry of the French into Milan?

─ No.

32. ─ Are you the only one who died in Italy?

─ Yes.

33. ─ Do you think that the war will last a long time?

─ No. It is easy and therefore not very meritorious to make such a prediction.

34. ─ When you see one of your leaders among the Spirits, do you still recognize him as your superior?

─ If he is, yes; if not, no. [note below]

NOTE from AK : In its simplicity and brevity, this answer is eminently profound and philosophical. In the Spiritist world, moral superiority is the only thing recognized. Whoever did not have it on Earth, whatever their position, does not, in fact, have any superiority. There the boss can be under the soldier and the boss under the server. What a lesson for our pride!

35. ─ Do you think about God's justice and are you worried about it?

─ Who wouldn't think of that? Fortunately, I don't have much to fear. I rescued, for some actions that God considered good, the few levities that I committed as “zuzu”, as you say.

36. ─ Watching a combat, could you protect one of your companions and deflect a fatal blow from him?

─ No. We can not do that. The time of death is set by God. If it has to happen, nothing will stop it, just as no one will be able to reach it if its time has not rung.

37. ─ Do you see General Espinasse?

─ I haven't seen him yet. But I hope to see you soon.

SECOND CONVERSATION

(JUNE 17, 1859)

38. (Evocation).

─ Gift! Firm! In front!

39. ─ Do you remember coming here eight days ago?

─ Why not?!

40. ─ You told us that you hadn't seen General Espinasse yet. How could you recognize him, since he didn't take his general's uniform with him?─ No, but I know him by sight. Besides, don't we have a lot of friends around us, ready to reveal the password to us? It's not like the barracks here. People are not afraid to bump into someone, and I assure you that only rogues are left alone.

41. ─ Under what guise do you find yourself here?

─ Zuavo.

42. ─ If we could see you, how would we see you?

- In a turban and breeches.

43. ─ Well done! Suppose you appeared to us in a turban and breeches. Where would you have gotten those clothes, since you left yours on the battlefield?

─ Well, well! I don't know how it is, but I have a tailor who fits them for me.

44. ─ What are the turban and breeches you wear made of? Have you no idea?

─ No. That's right there with the ragpicker.

NOTE from AK: This issue of the clothing of spirits, as well as several other no less interesting ones, linked to the same principle, were completely elucidated by new observations made within the Society. We will report on this in the next issue. Our good Zouavo is not advanced enough to solve it alone. For that, we needed the concurrence of circumstances that fortuitously presented themselves and that put us on the right path.

45. ─ Do you know why you see us, while we cannot see you?

─ I think your glasses are too weak.

46. ─ Is it not for this same reason that you do not see the general in his uniform?

─ Yes, but he doesn't wear it every day.

47. ─ What days do you wear it?

─ Now that! When they call him to the palace.

48. ─ Why are you here dressed as a Zouavo if we can't see you?─ Simply because I am still a Zouavo, even after about eight years, and because among Spirits we conserve that form for a long time. But that's just between us. You understand that when we go to a very different world, like the Moon or Jupiter, we don't take the trouble to do all that toileting.

OBSERVATION: This here is very interesting. What I understand is that he is referring to the fact that the Spirit adopts a perispiritual form according to the world where they go and according to the existence of a personality in that world, without even realizing it. If he had lived in a distant world, for example, an animal seller, when evoked there, he would present himself in this way.

49. ─ You speak of the Moon and Jupiter. Were you there after he died?

─ No. You are not understanding me. After death we find out about many things. Didn't they explain to us a lot of problems of our Earth? Don't we know God and other beings much better than we did a fortnight ago? With death, the Spirit undergoes a metamorphosis that you cannot understand.

50. ─ Did you search the body left on the battlefield?

─ Yes. He is not handsome.

51. ─ What impression did this view leave you with?

─ Of sadness.

52. ─ Are you aware of your previous existence?

─ Yes, but it is not glorious enough for me to strut.

53. ─ Just tell us the kind of life you led.

─ Simple merchant of wild animal skins.

54. ─ We thank you for your goodness in coming for the second time.

─ See you soon. It amuses and instructs me. Since I am well tolerated here, I will gladly return.

OBSERVATION: Tolerance is one of the consequences of charity. The Zouave felt “welcomed” in the communication.

THE next post will bring the evocation of the superior officer who was in the same battle as this zuavo.